First Internet Discussion on Street Medics, Media, Gender and Ethics
On August 21st, 2012 some street medics had a public discussion to discus the topics of street medics, media, gender and ethics. It is hoped there will be more discussions in the future of this type and style. This is the chat log. PM hexe: Okay PM guest-538876 entered the room. PM guest-538876 changed nickname to jonesy PM guest-538915 entered the room. PM guest-538915 changed nickname to null PM jonesy: leave it to jones to be 20 min. early for everything PM hexe: Heya jonesy! PM hexe: I'm gonna wait for more people to show up before we dive into stuffs. PM hexe: It's good to see ya though! PM jonesy: Hi! Thanks! Good 2 C u too! PM hexe: And hi to you to null. PM hexe: :D PM jonesy: This is really exciting! PM hexe: The internet is ALWAYS exciting. PM jonesy: Yeah, with such a stellar cast n crew!!! PM null left the room. PM guest-539125 entered the room. PM guest-539125 changed nickname to mostlyhazey PM hexe: Hi Haze! :) PM mostlyhazey: hi! PM hexe: So as soon as a few more people show up I'm going to ask everyone to introduce themselves PM guest-539194 entered the room. PM hexe: And pose some questions about the topics and see how the discussion goes. jonesy: sounds great! PM guest-539194 changed nickname to esther_mack hexe: Hiya Esther! PM esther_mack: oh hey PM esther_mack: okay disregard the email i just sentcha PM hexe: Is the chatroom working okay for you? PM guest-539317 entered the room. PM esther_mack: yep now it is hexe: Kewl PM guest-539317 changed nickname to dnnlkh PM guest-539335 entered the room. PM hexe: So, how's everybody doing? (While we wait for a few more folks to show up.) dnnlkh: Late! Or is this 6pm PST? PM esther_mack: good! I'm applying to some free courses :) PM guest-539335 left the room. PM hexe: This is indeed 6pm PST PM hexe: Yay free courses! PM hexe: Learning is the best. dnnlkh: excellent. PM jonesy: its an adventure! dnnlkh: :) PM jonesy: sun just went down out here in EST PM hexe: Okay, I'm note sure how much activist time leeway I should give in this situation, PM esther_mack: How many people are we waiting on? PM hexe: so I'm gonna wait until 10 past and ask everyone to introduce themselves. PM hexe: Well, I emailed the link to over 15 people who said they were interested, PM hexe: but that doesn't mean they'll all show up. onesy: OK. good! Would anyone like to talk about copying this thread, is it ok with everyone? PM jonesy: to copy this into a word file? PM esther_mack: for what purpose? PM jonesy: for later use at trainings n such? PM dnnlkh: For action medical or ... ? PM hexe: I'm already copying everything into a word file, the intention of this was to document it PM jonesy: awesome, thanks hexe hexe: I apologize if that's a surprise to anyone, I was pretty clear in the forst email I sent PM hexe: that this was being documented PM hexe: *first PM esther_mack: I don't mind, I just forgot it was said PM hexe: I can haz speeling. :) PM dnnlkh: Sounds good. hexe: Okay, can I ask everyone to introduce themselves a little bit?Only as much as you're comfy PM hexe: Name, background, whatever you feel is important. PM hexe: I can go first? PM mostlyhazey: cool :) PM hexe: I'm hexe, I'm a street medic since 2004 and a WEMT. I like the internet! PM hexe: And I like discussing stuff like how we can do all our cool shit better. PM hexe: Ok, next? esther_mack: I'm Esther, street medic since this winter and I like the Internet too PM esther_mack: and I'm totally queer. PM dnnlkh: Kat, street medic since 2002 - first with BARHC, now North Star Health Collective in MN. hexe: Oh I forgot about that bit: I'm a genderqueer/trans person who likes....adventure? dnnlkh: Loving how street medicine is evolving with social media PM dnnlkh: Pass onesy: Nice all, I'm jones, street medic since pittsburgh: herbs, hospital experience... PM jonesy: videographer n editor mostlyhazey: i am haze, i have been a street medic for about nine years and i am also an emt PM mostlyhazey: the internet is pretty alright i suppose jonesy: yes n i feel like we're really talking PM mostlyhazey: i am also a genderqueer/trans person. mostly i like tea. adventures can stay too. PM hexe: Tea is wonderful. :) PM hexe: Ok, I'm going to pose some quetions around the intersections of street medics and media PM hexe: and um PM esther_mack: Oh yes I like tea PM hexe: I guess we can talk about them and stuff? PM hexe: And tea PM esther_mack: lots of tea :) PM hexe: We can alwasy talk about tea PM hexe: *always PM jonesy: where do you get those nice emoticons? PM esther_mack: : ) but without the space PM hexe: I just type happy faces and they appear PM jonesy: ok thanks PM hexe: magic! PM jonesy: :-) PM hexe: exactly! dnnlkh: Also y'all are getting twofered by some brownie creation. I may have reply lag. PM jonesy: Hmm PM jonesy: can u say more about it? PM hexe: That's okay, the internet is here for you. And your brownies. onesy: ok I C. PM esther_mack: And tea. PM dnnlkh: *settling into it.* PM jonesy: I have reply lag just 'cuz PM hexe: Ok, so the reason I wanted to do this is because of the amount of media we interact PM hexe: and how much of activism is being broadcast these days PM hexe: I feel like it changes the way we as medics roll PM jonesy: like superstars, you mean? PM dnnlkh: Since we're being documented? PM guest-539761 entered the room. PM hexe: Yes, in a way. PM guest-539761 changed nickname to jesse PM hexe: The huge amount of citizen media is in many ways one of the only weapons activists have, PM hexe: but there are the issues of anonymity, both for medics and patients PM hexe: and who feels comfortable interacting with media, as opposed to simply dealing with it PM jesse: legal issues as well as we are starting to see with the May Day investigation PM hexe: exactly PM guest-539809 entered the room. PM hexe: so my first question/topic is: How do we protect our patient confidentiality? PM guest-539809 changed nickname to jb PM jonesy: Yes. each time having to think it through. PM dnnlkh: This brings to mind the patient that went under the van in Chicago. A privacy circle went PM dnnlkh: up around him, followed by arms reaching i dnnlkh: This brings to mind the patient that went under the van in Chicago. A privacy circle went PM dnnlkh: up around him, followed by arms reaching in with cell phone cameras. PM jesse: Privacy circles work well PM jb: joined the group whiteboard. PM dnnlkh: Less well these days is my point. PM guest-539833 entered the room. guest-539833 entered the room. PM jesse: True PM guest-539833 changed nickname to bird_brains PM bird_brains: joined the group whiteboard. PM jonesy: I'm glad u brought this up, Hexe PM jesse: You can always ask the person filming to wait until you get consent PM hexe: And with patient confidentiality, I would also like to discuss how medics and media PM hexe: interact PM hexe: and how we can support each other PM jb: Some protesters held their flags in front of acmeras at the privacy circke after the van i PM jonesy: There's media and there's the FBI PM jesse: With mainstream media I have used the line, "this person may be interested in giving in PM jesse: giving jesse: giving interveiws but will only give interveiws to people who respect there privacy now PM jb: An insistent media person can be asked if they really want to create a document of the pat PM jesse: worked pretty wee esther_mack: Then there's the issue of cases where consent cannot be given PM jb: *patient's treatment which would be subject to HEPA esther_mack: like the person in new york on march 17 who had a medical issue during their arrest PM esther_mack: Their issue was caught on film and subsequently hugely useful in court PM esther_mack: but said person was unable to give consent PM jonesy: UGH. bird_brains: :( i have body-blocked media when my medic buddy was providing care (flushes, etc) and ask PM esther_mack: (I did not witness this firsthand, being in police custody myself at the time, but heard PM esther_mack: about it in jail first-hand and afterwards online) bird_brains: or tell that means when my patient can breathe/etc. PM hexe: i'm sad that one of my more vocal media people isn't able to participate PM bird_brains: sorry to start in the middle of this, y'all, i just got off of work. PM hexe: because i wold love to have more input from media folks PM hexe: no worries, javi PM jesse: Agreed anyone from media here? PM dnnlkh: Can we have the new folks do intros? PM jb: maybe we can do this again w/more media people PM hexe: hey, could i get the newer arrivals to introduce themselves? PM jb: JB from CAM bird_brains: Javi from Seattle PM dnnlkh: It would be interesting to get the media perspective - as a non-media person, I don't see [6:39 PM dnnlkh: the upside beyond documentation for court... PM hexe: yeah, i was hoping this would spark moe discussion in the future, but only time will tell PM hexe: about that PM jesse: public opinion is another point PM bird_brains: yes. PM jb: how? PM jonesy: There's radical media and Mainstream media. PM bird_brains: the big public outcry about sit-in kids being peppersprayed recently that sparked all the PM jb: I hear ya bird PM bird_brains: memes/etc. and that intelligent newscast that was like "HEY GUESS WHAT THIS SHIT HAPPENS PM hexe: and the most accessible to us is the radical media, another this I want to discuss is PM bird_brains: ALL THE TIME, you just don't see it because the cops usually rain down on people with less PM hexe: how/if the ethics of medics and media overlap PM bird_brains: privilege" PM jb: elaborate hexe? PM hexe: well, a lot of activist media has similar ethics to begin with, and i was thinking PM hexe: the more we interact with media folks adn discuss ethics the more they will be able to PM hexe: respect our esther_mack: yes! PM esther_mack: we really need to explain about patient confidentiality/privacy, before actions, because PM esther_mack: in the midst of things is really a horrible time to do that PM jb: right PM bird_brains: what if you had a card? PM jb: what would go on it? PM esther_mack: i think that still would not work, because everything's exciting and hectic and they're PM esther_mack: in their moment and won't want to take the time to read a card PM dnnlkh: catching the moment would be hard. bird_brains: yes, that's fair. PM jb: so outreach beforhand like the way medics contact local EMS PM jb: ? PM hexe: that's part of what i'm doing now, honestly PM jonesy: mainstream media coverage at the pittsburgh g-20 was awful, can only improve. PM jb: nice PM dnnlkh: I feel like this thread taps into the larger (human society) problem of rubber-necking at PM dnnlkh: accidents. PM hexe: but i feel like it needs to be an ongoing thing, not just something that happens before ac PM jesse: A card or premade flier for radical media folks could be really useful PM hexe: actions esther_mack: still though, there is the part where media coverage is hugely useful in court PM jb: interesting delema jesse: A lot of medic groups have after care cards for paitnets we could do something for media PM bird_brains: "dear media, please consider the possible repercussions of filming/photographing people ex b: I was serious about telling media they are creating a med record PM bird_brains: periencing medical emergencies at actions. Our first principle as medics is to FIRST DO NO PM bird_brains: HARM." blah blah. PM esther_mack: what are the implications of media creating a record? PM esther_mack: how does it affect them/their usage of the recording PM hexe: legal, both for the patient and the medic PM jesse: Here is our contact info, we can help faclitiate communication between you and our client PM dnnlkh: A good point, especially for those of us that also maintain licenses. PM jb: according to Dick, it would be subject to the same privacy regs as written, esther y PM jonesy: for the patient's best interests PM jb: It sure shut one or two insistent camera wielders when I said it PM hexe: another layer i wanted to discuss is the gender angle PM jb: yes PM jb: what's your take? PM jb: view/ PM hexe: as in, dudes are seriously over-represented in activist media, and i've noticed that PM dnnlkh: Jb - what do you mean? Like a HIPPA violation? PM jb: yeah PM hexe: the medics who are comfortable interacting with media are almost always male-bodied PM hexe: trans medics generally don't want to be mis-gendered, and many of the female-bodied PM hexe: medics generally just don't want to be bothered PM hexe: i feel like there's a loss of voices PM jb: agreed PM hexe: accidental, generally, but having only a few types of people represent medics PM bird_brains: +1. PM esther_mack: I always feel that I don't know what to say - I'm afraid I'll misspeak and cause a ruckus PM jb: any ideas to solve it?, hexe? PM esther_mack: so that's why I don't talk to media PM hexe: is not giving space for everyone PM jesse: I feel like medics also don't want to appear on media for fear of being misrepresented PM esther_mack: medic media relations trainings? PM hexe: i understand totally about not wanting to make an ss out of yourself on camera PM jesse: in ways that could palce us in the infighting of the movement PM hexe: that's honeslty wh i shut up a lot PM jesse: OSSM has a rule that we don't talk to media unles advocating for a client hexe: damn i can't type today PM hexe: i'm sorry folks PM esther_mack: when would a medic be advocating to media? PM dnnlkh: Fear of the structural violence associated with screwing up PM jb: ithis came up in a CAM meeting when some documentary types were around PM hexe: i hope my gobbldygook makes sense PM esther_mack: don't worry hexe, this is the Internet PM bird_brains: Rhizobia's rule bird_brains: Rhizobia's rule is that we don't give interviews without prior consent from our collective PM dnnlkh: can be more of a female bodied fear, since structural violence tends to be aimed at us PM dnnlkh: anyways. PM esther_mack: we had a medic spokesperson during ATO PM esther_mack: NATO* PM bird_brains: and that we don't, generally. PM jb: we left it at it's okay to talk as an individual but not representing CAM PM jonesy: a gender/queer medic video wd b cool PM esther_mack: although that person identified and was easily identifiable as a man hexe: true PM jesse: @jonesy agreed PM jb: there's a lot to be said for anonymity PM hexe: there really is PM hexe: selective anonymity especially PM jonesy: when u make a video you get to say what you want and how u want it esther_mack: what kind of video? PM hexe: porn, obvs PM hexe: j/k jesse: LAW facials and what not PM jonesy: Issues in street medicine from a queer perspective PM esther_mack: lol PM jonesy: lol PM bird_brains: <3 PM jb: being a new medic but an old recovering addict PM jb: I find interesting parallels in the two cultures PM dnnlkh: yikes. PM hexe: i feel like when genderqueer people teach medic skillz they usually teach from a queer PM hexe: perspective jonesy: yes PM jesse: I've noticed a huge and under represent queer and trans presences in the medic community PM esther_mack: yeah. definitely a lot more emphasis on not assuming anything PM dnnlkh: So the solution is a more diverse base of trainers? PM bird_brains: +1 Jesse. PM jesse: but also a huge lack of POC representation PM esther_mack: really? I have noticed a whole lot of queer/trans presence PM esther_mack: POC has absoliutely been lacking PM bird_brains: ding. hexe: dong PM esther_mack: Just looking at the NATO protests, I can think of 10 medics off the top of my head who wer PM esther_mack: e openly queer/trans PM hexe: yeah, it was pretty cool PM mostlyhazey: yeah i have noticed a ton of queer/trans medics but i am usually one of the few poc PM jesse: esther, may have misspoke, noticed a lot of queer trans medics, but not so much in media PM jesse: rep PM esther_mack: and when I was trained, it was by two queer medics PM hexe: but i've noticed that despite ther being a large amount of queers, there seems to be less PM hexe: of them being visible to people other than medics PM jesse: True PM jesse: Okaland is an exeption to the POC thing I've noticed PM hexe: yeah, i'm sad i couldn't get any Oakland medics up in this PM jonesy: video title: the media and you (all) PM jesse: Well shit since I have a bunch of meds here, anyone found a good sub for Maloxx PM jb: please tell me the problem w/Maloxx PM hexe: other than the active chems in maalox? PM dnnlkh: Anything without flavoring or simethicone. PM hexe: nawp PM jb: ah PM jesse: Been reccalled PM esther_mack: I use saline or salt+water PM esther_mack: works for the flush, the LAW does feel really good but isn't necessary PM jb: I had LAW with me at NATO and intended it for topical PM dnnlkh: There are some teaching water + a few drops of antacid. Some teach the old 1/2 and 1/2 PM hexe: i can't trust jsut using a few drops, psychologically PM hexe: it just seems lie not enough to work PM bird_brains: wasn't there a military study done recently that found saline to be more effective? it see exe: but if anyone has science on it i'll believe it [7:05 PM jonesy: checking the ingredients on my mylanta PM dnnlkh: I'm a traditionalist. 1/2 and 1/2, and flush away. PM bird_brains: ms like it's the force that washes the volatile oil off the surface of the eye. hexe: yes, but if i'm making LAAW, it's generally 1/2 & 1/2 PM hexe: just... cuz PM jesse: I beleave mylanta has been recalled as well jb: googling PM jesse left the room. PM guest-540577 entered the room. PM guest-540577 changed nickname to jesse PM dnnlkh: Hexe, what else came up when you were thinking of issues with the media? PM jb: got that right, jesse PM jb: oh, jesse's gone. A big yep on Mylanta recall PM jesse: Sorry back PM esther_mack: why were maalox & mylanta recalled? PM bird_brains: alcohol in the flavoring. PM hexe: um i think i've gone through most of my discussion topics actually PM jb: maalox was covered up pretty well PM jb: in media esther_mack: oh hey guys, cops in "riot gear" (per twitter) WERE moving in on a protest in denver PM esther_mack: 15 min ago PM jb: yikes PM bird_brains: :/ PM hexe: is there anything y'all have on your mind re: medics/media/ethics? PM jesse: Yes lets bring it back PM jesse: I feel like contact is the best PM bird_brains: contact? PM jesse: Getting contact info for patient and media PM hexe: that's so difficult though PM jb: rite PM dnnlk dnnlkh: Having a intra-collective agreement for behavior seems like a fantastic step. PM jesse: Agreed but it's hard to know all the media at big event PM sther_mack: and communicating w media before actions [7:11 PM dnnlkh: And bystanders with cell phone cameras, etc. PM esther_mack: i think that designating a buddy pair (if there are enough) to talk to/hand out cards PM jesse: That's why I like the card idea PM jesse: Agreed but it's hard to know all the media at big event [7:11 PM esther_mack: and communicating w media before actions PM dnnlkh: And bystanders with cell phone cameras, etc. PM esther_mack: i think that designating a buddy pair (if there are enough) to talk to/hand out cards PM jesse: That's why I like the card idea PM esther_mack: to media at the beginning of actions is a good idea PM esther_mack: bystanders are harder.... mic checks may work for that, or trainings/discussions beforehan PM esther_mack: d PM jb: bystanders w/cams were perplexed many times, I noticed PM dnnlkh: That might have the same problem as people walking around with gas masks on - PM dnnlkh: escalates the situation if we're anticipating having patients. PM jb: some felt they were helping the patient by documenting [7:13 PM esther_mack: bystanders *may* be less intense about documenting PM esther_mack: true jesse: I feel like documenting is less problmatic then posting PM esther_mack: (true is to both jb and kat) PM esther_mack: also true. but there are still possible legal ramifications and we can't be sure that thin PM esther_mack: things will not be posted PM esther_mack: when I was running at NATO my buddy and I had an agreement that if one of us got hurt PM jonesy: one thing that's been happening is that activists pictures are more and more winding up in PM esther_mack: the other would not prevent media from documenting [7:15 PM jonesy: police databases PM jb: with bystanders most the time I just calmly said please no photos and it worked PM jesse: Agreed, if a person is an ally they will be understanding. If not then get some alies to PM jesse: block them [7:16 PM jb: right. People generally got the idea & helped block, I noticed PM jonesy: i look for really expensive cameras PM jb: meaning media/cops, jonesy? PM jesse: Alright have to go good chat though PM jesse left the room. PM jb: peace, jess PM hexe: alright everyone, i might have to peace out really soon PM hexe: but i'm really happy about the discussions we got to have PM jb: I really liked this. Thank you, hexe PM hexe: (I'm starving and there's a workshop about to start where I'm interneting) PM jb: & everybody PM jonesy: thanks hexe [7:18 PM guest-540778 entered the room. PM esther_mack left the room. PM guest-540784 entered the room. PM jb: ciao peps PM hexe: i totally want to thank everyone who came PM dnnlkh: Thanks, Hexe. Hope to see y'all out there. PM guest-540784 changed nickname to esther_mack PM hexe: the internet is amazing! :D PM bird_brains: nice to chat, y'all. stay safe. thank you Hexe. PM jb: sure is amazing! PM hexe: you too, javi [7:19 PM dnnlkh: PS, the brownies are done. Stop by Mpls and get you some. PM jb left the room. PM hexe: alright, i'll get in my teleporter :) PM bird_brains: i'd be interested in doing this again with folks, about other topics. PM hexe: yes! PM guest-540778 changed nickname to beccs PM hexe: that would be awesome PM bird_brains: omg the cardboard teleporter is complete? PM bird_brains: i'm going to portland tonite! PM guest-540814 entered the room. PM beccs left the room. PM guest-540814 changed nickname to jb beccs left the room. PM guest-540814 changed nickname to jb PM hexe: alrighty, i'm out PM jonesy: jones is interested in video-making 4 medics PM hexe: love you all PM hexe: let's keep this going! PM hexe: <3 PM dnnlkh left the room. PM esther_mack left the room. [7:20 PM